Dining across the divide: ‘He asked what I think of Trump. He’s a dangerous idiot’

8 hours ago 3

Lian, 57, Darlington

Occupation Former professor of chemistry, now head of growth for a green startup

Voting record Labour party member. Before that had voted Green in some local elections. Describes himself as centre left

Amuse bouche A former PhD student of Lian’s is now his boss. “I only went to work for her for five weeks. That was two and a half years ago”

Carl, 46, Darlington

Occupation Ex-Royal Navy, now a software developer

Voting record Mainly Conservative, but has recently been flirting with Reform

Amuse bouche Carl worked for Nato in Kabul from 2016 to 2018. “Best two years of my life. Embassy parties all the time, like Ibiza with rifles”

For starters

Carl I know someone else called Lian. I thought it might be the same person, but it wasn’t. I had a salmon starter and a haddock katsu curry. We shot the breeze, things like how we ended up doing this. I read the Guardian as much as the Telegraph – a 50:50 split.

Lian Carl’s wife is a caseworker for our local MP, who I’m quite good friends with, so we had a link. I had a coronation chicken terrine, then the market fish with new potatoes and samphire.

Lian and Carl raising a glass before they eat their starters

The big beef

Carl The BBC licence fee should be abolished. It’s not like the old days where you had four channels and that was it; there’s loads of choice. We have a TV, but it’s just linked up to Netflix and YouTube. I don’t pay the licence fee. We get threatening letters every year – I just ignore them.

Lian I don’t care whether it’s funded by a licence fee or central taxation, but it should be funded in a way that underpins its long-term security. The BBC does things that other channels won’t do. Would you ever see Question Time on another channel? Or the wonderful David Attenborough nature programmes that cost a fortune.

Carl The BBC has always been a bit lefty. And bloated. How much do they pay Gary Lineker, for example? I like watching sport, but that should just be private subscription. Strictly Come Dancing, EastEnders – they could still be made by independent producers. And the BBC should be reduced to essentially a news agency.

Lian He seemed quite anti-Strictly! I love the BBC; it is one of the jewels in our crown. If we lost it, in 20 years’ time we would regret it beyond contemplation. The right pushes back against the BBC because it is one of the few organisations that will report objectively, and if it thinks that the right is doing something that it shouldn’t, it will be critical of that.

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Sharing plate

Lian We agreed that in some deprived areas – Middlesbrough, for example, where there are people who are heavily dependent on benefits – a combination of carrot and stick is better than purely stick. The threat to just cut benefits is not going to be helpful to these people.

Carl We agreed that climate change is happening, and something needs to be done about it. I’m a bit more sceptical, though. The Chinese, Americans, Russians aren’t on board with it. So, on that basis, we’re pissing in the wind a bit.

Carl gesticulating at the restaurant table

For afters

Lian He asked what I think of Donald Trump. He’s a dangerous idiot, which is the worst kind. The way he is trying to bully the great universities of the US into toeing the line is disgraceful. And the whole immigration thing terrifies me – pointing a finger at somebody you suspect of being a Venezuelan terrorist, then it’s someone who happens to be Venezuelan, then a US citizen you just don’t like …

Carl That is a bit dystopian. I don’t particularly like Trump as a person – he’s a narcissist. But I just can’t help but admire the brass neck of the man. And he’s pushed some hard truths the way of UK and Europe. For a long time, we’ve relied too much on the United States for defence – that’s changing, which is a good thing.

Waitress pouring wine while Lian and Carl look on

Takeaways

Carl There was a political difference: he’s to the left of me. But people of different political persuasions often get on better than people from the same side. Lian’s a really nice chap; we got on great.

Lian It was an honest and open discussion. I like to be challenged, and in that respect it might have been fun to meet someone who I wouldn’t want to meet again. But we swapped numbers – maybe we’ll meet for a beer.