Dining across the divide: ‘I was expecting her to shout me down’

Parvien, Leicester

Occupation Litigation solicitor

Voting record Usually votes Conservative

Amuse bouche Was shortlisted for a Legal Hero award, the only solicitor from outside the London area that year

Katie, Leicester

Occupation Associate professor

Voting record Holds an Irish and a US passport, and votes wherever she can. Did not vote for “that man”, voted for Kamala. Votes Labour or Green, depending on who needs the help

Amuse bouche Was a keen figure skater in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, as a teenager – but found out after three years that if you want to be the best, you have to start when you’re four, not 11

For starters

Katie She was warm and welcoming from the start, very mellow. She’d chosen the restaurant, and recommended the paneer tikka, which was delicious.

Parvien She was very sweet. I was expecting someone really feisty.

Katie We both had mock mojitos.

Parvien I had peshwari lamb with raw green chillies; it blew my head off.

The big beef

Katie I believe in freedom of movement for everyone. I’m an immigrant myself – I believe everyone should have access to that, all the time. Migration to the UK should be made less punitive. We need to remove existing barriers to incoming migrants. A phrase we both arrived at was “universal freedom of movement”. She said it was utopian, and it is a utopian idea, but it’s something I believe in.

Parvien There have to be the resources, conditions in place. I’m quite swayed by what the public think as well. We need to look at how immigration is benefiting society as a whole, and whether we have the infrastructure. In places like Dubai you can work there, but you don’t immediately get full rights. Just because you’re there, doesn’t mean you can then stay there after the role is redundant.

Katie I think she could see where I was coming from when I said, “If I get to move around, everyone should get to do it.” I didn’t want to armwrestle her. I wouldn’t say she’s very swayable, but we had such a great conversation. It was quite warm. She had concrete experience of working with people who have migrated, and the difficulties they experience.

Parvien We need to have a good look at why we have a skills shortage, rather than just getting migrants to plug it. We import doctors, yet our own universities are blocking students from doing medicine. When you import doctors, how do you verify their qualifications? In my profession, I’ve come across people with fake degrees. There’s a disparity there – I can understand people are going to get a bit annoyed about that.

Sharing plate

Katie I was curious to hear her take on the idea of the UK leaving the European convention on human rights. My question to her was: what equips the UK, acting alone, to be a better protector of human rights? She gave an example of a ruling where Europe basically overturned the disenfranchisement of all prisoners – the point she made was that the resources used to argue that change of policy could have been used to fight poverty instead.

Parvien I thought that was rubbish. If you’ve broken the law, how can you demand your rights under the law? The number of cases I deal with where I have a legal aid opponent on the other side, and there’s no merit in what they’re bringing: what is the cost to the taxpayer of this exercise?

For afters

Katie I object to generative AI, in part because I teach. My students use ChatGPT for their assessments. The sentences are too smooth, it’s very weird. That’s not the problem, the problem is what it does to students. They don’t produce arguments based on their own reading and thinking.

Parvien Katie’s view was that big tech was going to get rid of her job – I think I agreed with her; it probably would. I’m not worried about my job. If it gets rid of my job, I’ll just do something else. I’ll probably be the person programming the AI judges.

Takeaways

Katie We left on gorgeous terms. We spoke for three hours – she had all this knowledge – and she drove me home.

Parvien I was expecting someone shouting me down. She did not do that. We kept giggling.

Additional reporting: Kitty Drake

Parvien and Katie ate at The Tipu Sultan in Oadby, near Leicester

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