Dining across the divide: ‘We both feel the word woke has been overused’

2 days ago 9

Joanne, 52, Southampton

Occupation Knowledge manager

Voting record Doesn’t have a party political preference, tends to focus on local issues – but mostly Labour

Amuse bouche Is a huge football fan, and held a Charlton Athletic season ticket for 20 years

Jane, 58, Winchester

Occupation A little bit of property development

Voting record Normally Conservative; wouldn’t vote Reform, would deviate for the Lib Dems, particularly locally

Amuse bouche Started her own kindergarten, and later a daycare nursery business, to develop a Froebelian approach. It’s a more natural philosophy, very much about the outdoors and community

For starters

Jane I wasn’t late, but I’m never early. She looked like a person who’s always early and prepared. She was friendly, smiling. She didn’t look like a person I’d be meeting normally, but not in a terrible way, just different.

Joanne She seemed, I think, a little bit wary. Nervous of the whole situation. I felt OK. For me, it was just: I’m going to have a nice dinner and a chat.

Jane I ate pear salad, which was delicious – the blue cheese in it, I think it was dolcelatte, was so good. Then I had salmon, and a glass of rioja.

Joanne I had spicy pepper and tomato soup and sea bass.

The big beef

Joanne We’d both done a bit of research: what actually is “woke” and what does it mean? We came to similar viewpoints – that it’s been overused, and it’s grown to become anything and everything. For me, the people who use the word, use it in a negative way. Whereas I think the traditional meaning was often “anti-racist” – and why is it bad to be anti-racist?

Jane It was interesting that it meant something different to each of us, because we’re similar ages. I think we came from slightly different experiences. My father is Sri Lankan, so I had a different background. Not that I feel strongly about that.

Joanne She didn’t think, for example, if there was a period drama, there should be people cast who weren’t white, because it wouldn’t fit in with the period. Whereas, for me, if they’re a good actor, I don’t care what colour someone is. As long as they convince you that they are the character they’re playing, that’s fine. I could see her point: if you’re making a historically accurate programme, then it has to be accurate. But I don’t really agree. If it’s a drama, it doesn’t matter.

Jane We also talked about people who want to discredit the past, and there’s a lot to be ashamed of. But you can’t really undo it, it is what it is. Bring the truth to light, learn from it, but don’t think you can undo it. Equally, it was a long time ago, and there were people doing the best they could in the circumstances.

Sharing plate

Joanne We talked a bit about James Bond, and whether Idris Elba should have been cast. Some of the papers were outraged. And we laughed about that, we said it was ridiculous.

Jane I felt that the best thing would be an Asian female James Bond. Going back to my period drama thing – James Bond isn’t in period now, is he? So we have to update the casting.

For afters

Jane I was inclined to think second homes were a good thing – even though I can see there are negative effects where they take over, it still gives people the opportunity to visit a place they might not otherwise see.

Joanne My dad lives in a seaside area, and it’s really sad. Most of the houses are empty except for two or three weeks of the year; businesses can’t stay open. She was leaning more towards “it should be allowed as long as the owners rent it out regularly”. And I could see that point of view, but, for me, it’s really sad: these little places are struggling, they’re dying, and they’re beautiful.

Jane There is a huge amount of legislation to maintain communities already, which I think is a good thing.

Takeaways

Joanne We actually had a really nice night. Both of us are middle-aged women, we don’t have children, we have a similar lifestyle. I’d definitely stop and chat if I saw her again.

Jane We were different enough not to be exchanging numbers, but alike enough that we’d talk if we saw each other again.