Dining across the divide: ‘We both came out thinking Zack Polanski is a breath of fresh air’

3 hours ago 6

Andrew, 70, near Nottingham

Occupation Retired acupuncturist and herbalist

Voting record Has voted Labour for 50 years and is sick to death of them

Amuse bouche Andrew was the first English person to be awarded an honorary doctorate from a Chinese university

Jonathan, 49, Nottingham

Occupation Global programme manager for a technology company

Voting record Always Conservative, except for 2024 when he voted Labour

Amuse bouche Travels so much for work that he once went to Australia 10 times in 14 months

For starters

Jonathan I wasn’t sure quite what to make of him – he seemed a nice guy. I maybe thought his views were going to be stronger than they turned out to be.

Andrew Look, we’ve got ourselves here a reformed Tory, and myself rather more to the left. But we’re both disaffected with where politics has gone in this country. We both recognise that the biggest problem we’ve got is this massive inequality, and neither of us think the parties we used to be aligned with are addressing it.

Jonathan He had hake and chips, I had haddock and chips. It was a posh fish and chip shop.

Jonathan and Andrew holding menus and looking at the camera at a restaurant table

The big beef

Andrew I was once a shop steward for Unison. Forty years of self-employment later, I’m no longer an expert. But I can see how important trade unions are, how they support and prop up democracy. He’s from a reasonably well-to-do, middle-class, Tory background. He remembers his parents and his grandmother saying: “Trade unions, they’ll bring the country down.” And I pointed out that it is absolutely necessary for people to have bargaining power. Socialism isn’t about the violent expropriation of people’s properties, it’s about a little bit of redistribution.

Jonathan Given what I see in the world today, especially in the US where people have no rights, workers definitely have to have a voice. When they don’t, their rights are eroded. But I don’t think what we had in the past worked that well. I’m a big fan of having workers on boards – but I’ve worked in Germany as well, where they have the workers’ council, and they have crazy stuff that they can’t get through, because the workers say no.

Andrew You look at Bezos or Musk – do you think for one minute they would like unions? Of course they wouldn’t.

Jonathan We thought the same about Musk. I don’t think that’s the way the world needs to go, to have very, very rich people controlling the vast majority of the wealth. You need a society where people can achieve things. But the politics in the States is driven by oligarchs, and people saying: “This is all because of immigrants.”

Andrew and Jonathan chatting and eating at a restaurant table

Sharing plate

Andrew One area where I think the state really should intervene is in our utilities. It always seemed mad to me that people have made billions of pounds in revenue off of our water, off of our electricity, off of our power.

Jonathan To have innovation, you’ve got to have some sort of catalyst. That’s a profit motive. But it can’t just go to a private equity company that strips it. That said, if it’s entirely nationalised, and there’s no profit motive, that’s not a workable solution, either. Those companies become bloated – there’s no incentive to efficiency, to do better.

Andrew I agreed with him – British Rail was terrible. But the trains are terrible now, they’re just more expensive. The public are being rinsed and everybody’s sick of it.

Jonathan I certainly agree with Andrew on that. What’s happened with the water companies is terrible – but if you don’t control it, that’s the way it goes.

Andrew and Jonathan laughing while they eat at a restaurant table

For afters

Andrew We both came out saying: “Zack Polanski is a breath of fresh air.” We both recognise that no country can afford to have endless economic migrants, but all countries must be able to process people that land on our shores – sort out the people that need to be here.

Jonathan I’ve only read a few articles about what Polanski has said, but he seemed to be speaking a lot of sense to me. Greens have always been a bit fluffy, but Zack’s on to something.